oncovite

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Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:43:09 +0100

Oh and Lauren, don't forget garlic and I read on the internet today to take Maitake mushrooms.....which I have been also doing.... - Rosemary

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Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:40:47 +0100

Thanks, Lauren and Jim,

I'm going to share something here that I don't share with many people.
And ya'll (I'm Southern) may think I'm ga-ga, but when I got the cancer,
certain words would present themselves in my dreams (ie. the name of a particular herb or food) and it presented itself so prominently that it seemed to me to be a recommended course of action for me. (from where?)

One night, an herb name appeared in a dream, and later, when I was checking out the ingredients in Essiac, I was a little shocked to find that the main ingredient of Essiac was the herb of my dream. This kind of thing has happened more than once or even twice...

I've decided to trust myself, even more than reports or statistics .. and I guess that is the bottom line of what I am trying to say..

- Rosemary

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Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:20:14 +0100

Hello all,

I'm not sure reliance on statistics or on intuition is the issue, really. The key seems to me that the members of this forum are aggressively seeking both perspective for context and detailed information on which to base individual action. They are participants in their care, and that will undoubtedly be helpful to both them and their doctors.

When you get right down to it, it all boils down to intuition. You either rely on it flat out, or you rely on it to tell you which study to trust. Analysis of these studies is helpful, but ultimately the people who conducted them and we who assess them are both subject to the same technical and hidden bias errors. Recently a study about studies, in JAMA I think, demonstrated that half of all studies one year are refuted by other studies the next year.

Even with the protocols for BC, there's an awful lot of "it seems to work" going on - take BCG: there's really only speculation about why it works. It was an educated guess to try it, a fortunate one it seems, but we still don't understand it.

I prefer to take the so-called logical route myself, and try to be sure I'm disabusing myself of my own preferences and biases along the way. But I'll tell you this much: I'm in Istanbul, I can get drugstore.com to deliver to me here, and I'm getting me some Oncovite! On the other hand, I've seen the Harvard study that suggests that broccoli cuts the risk of bladder cancer in men. Honestly, that presents me with a real quandary. I kind of hope that study gets refuted next year.

Best to all.

Sincerely,

Jim - jhs

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Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:47:45 +0100

Vanilla ice cream??? Bring it on!!! ;D

I am waiting for my first poke and peek in August (was diagnosed TaG1 in Dec of last year). Since I am also Type 2 diabetic, I just bought ANOTHER few books on cancer fighting foods, and guess what? If I followed all the opinions, all I could ever eat AGAIN would be beans, nuts, broccoli and green tea!!!

Seriously, I read alot... and take the parts of what I read that seem to make the most sense, can fit in my lifestyle, and follow them. I always took a multivitamin, but decided to make it an Oncovite from now on. I always drank tea, so I'm making it green tea from now on. And I now have about a hundred recipes for beans! (Organic black beans burritos with chiles and cilantro on whole wheat tortillas)...my favorite!

The worst is not being able to drink much of anything except tea or milk or water - and I use Stevia in my iced tea, to try and avoid other artificial sweetners (goodbye, Diet Pepsi..)..

Anyway, my point is to absorb everything and use your best judgement, I guess. And have faith that if you are doing your best to take care of yourself, God will have your back...

Lauren - lhpdogs

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Thu, 29 Jun 2006 07:19:09 +0100

Chris,
After sleeping on this, I decided to say my last thing about this..
My feeling about reports and statistics is that what is a valid report in this decade, will be retracted in the next decade. So eventually, it is up to us how we handle our self-care. Doctors are wonderful when you need them to remove a diseased bladder, as it would be hard to operate on ourselves...but we must rely on ourselves for our healing...
As soon as my ego jumps up and tries to prove myself right in an argument,
then inevitably, I am struck by lightening to humble myself back to my seat...
In the end, it is God who is our healing. There are no statistics or reports for this knowledge...but when we are in the trenches, this is what we KNOW.

Bye for now - Rosemary

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:30:41 +0100

That's a new one on me, Chris!

Know what? If I thought bird's saliva would help, I would take it...

The best one I've heard for bladder cancer is vanilla ice cream.

Evidently, a nurse friend of my sister told her to tell me about it...
It seems her dog had bladder cancer, and her vet told her to give him vanilla ice cream...and the dog is doing fine...this is what I've been told in good faith.

I like mine with chocolate syrup!

- Rosemary

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:21:48 +0100

Thats Ok Rosemary, my wife is Chinese and a firm believer in alternative medicines, so I deal with opposing opinions on the subject all the time. �Let me tell you some of the alternative Chinese medicines would make even you cringe! �Bird saliva soup was another one I recently refused.

[i]The birds in question are sea swifts, and for centuries they�ve nested in hillside caves in the area. But a few years ago they inexplicably discovered the joys of urban living, moving into the unfinished basement of the biggest hotel in town. The birds build their nests with the secretion from jaw glands that firms as it dries out. Once the chicks have grown, the nests are abandoned � and that�s when the humans move in.

The nests are harvested and turned into birds� nest soup � one of the most expensive dishes available, and regarded as the caviar of the East. Each kilo of nests sells from around $US2,000. Now everyone in town has got in on the act, turning over their houses to the birds � with many even building special houses with high security to deter poachers.[/i]

[url]http://www.abc.net.au/abccontentsales/s1184106.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.thaiwaysmagazine.com/thai_article/2224_bird_nests/bird_nests.html[/url]

yuck! - Christopher

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:10:02 +0100

:)Chris,

I bet I could come up with plenty of statistics-facts for good counterpoint....but it obviously is a waste of time...cause you just ain't buying it.

Which is okay, really...

Like I said, to each his own...I hope we can still be friends, even though we are at grossly opposite ends of the spectrum (I don't even know if that's an apt phrase) anyway, I still care...

hope your Doc knows Kung Fu :D

- Rosemary

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:46:40 +0100

Rosemary,

Not trying to get into a competition here (although I bet my second opinion urologist could whip your second opinion urologist in a fist fight) - If your intuition tells you to take specially formulated multi-vitamins and tumeric powder, etc.. go for it. �I think lots of Doctors actually encourage people to change their diets, take multivitamins, more exercise, etc.. just because it helps the patients feel better that they think they are doing something to help get rid of the cancer versus sitting around waiting for it to reocurr, and also it can't hurt and is probably good for you in other health aspects.

I personally think the only things you can really do to help prevent the cancer (if following bladder sparing) is to cut off the source of carcinogens (if known) and follow an agressive treatment course (i.e. BCG, chemo, radiation, whatever..) with regular checkups to catch it early if it does reocurr. � Finding a good urologist that actually knows what he is doing is of utmost importance as well (i.e. - Make sure you have a very good surgeon removing your tumors completely).

There may actually be some benefit to mega-dosing Oncovite or something similar, but the scientific evidence really doesn't show this.. �

[i]In reviewing studies on the effects of vitamins A, C or E, multivitamins with folic acid or combinations of antioxidants, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, an independent panel convened by the Public Health Service, concluded in 2003 that there was insufficient evidence to recommend vitamin supplements as a way to prevent cancer.

"Vitamins and minerals are probably more or less worthless as far as cancer prevention is concerned," says Dr. Daniel W. Nixon, president of the Institute for Cancer Prevention in New York. "The American public is not vitamin-deficient. Does adding vitamins to their diet do anything? Probably not."[/i]

[url] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5235270/ [/url]

Of course, like you, this is just my opinion. - Christopher

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:59:22 +0100

I am so proud and lucky to have the Dr's that I have...
And just wanted to say, without giving too much away, that my local Dr. compared my 2nd opinion Dr. to being "like the star quarterback of the NFL"

- Rosemary

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:41:59 +0100

Chris,

To each his own. And truly, this point is hard to argue and hard to prove.
You and I are on different playing fields. You on the cerebral, and I on the intuitive....

Also, we could get into competition on whose doctor knows more...I do know that my 2nd opinion Dr has a resume about a foot long and that my local Dr states that he, himself is in awe of him...

My 2nd opinion Dr. recommended an antioxidant supplement, not neccesarily the Lamm product. I take a somewhite similar supplement to Lamm's which also includes turmeric and co-enzyme Q10...etc...

I wish you could have seen the face of my 2nd opinion Dr on the day he told me the path reports. Evidently, the other fella who he biopsied on the same day was not as lucky.

I also know enough to know that one should never boast a cure with cancer.

But on the day of my path report, I felt the rewards of trusting my instincts....
- Rosemary

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Wed, 28 Jun 2006 01:41:03 +0100

If anyone took the study/claims for Oncovite seriously there would be many more studies being performed, or at least that was the info I got when I asked my second opinion Urologist today. So, that just confirms what I really suspected (ever since really looking at the "double-blind study" Lamm put out), that the Oncovite claims are BS and it probably is just another snakeoil.

No offense to you snakeoil believers. But, like any other multivitamin, it probably won't hurt. Oh, I also didn't get the feeling from my Uro that eating lots of broccoli is going to have much of an impact on outcomes as well. - Christopher

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Fri, 09 Jun 2006 08:30:12 +0100

test - Jeff

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Fri, 09 Jun 2006 08:29:10 +0100

Thanks for that Keith. Sorry to hear things aren't going so well. I do hope it works out for you and the reports paint a better picture when next you see your doctors. Keep your chin up my friend and please keep posting as I am keen to follow your story. I will also keep posting regarding mine.

Cheers

Jeff - Jeff

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Thu, 08 Jun 2006 21:14:58 +0100

Jeff

Things didn't go to well.Bcg didn't stop tumor from growing so next step looks like RC. Meet with uro/surgeon June 21 so will know more then.Never did ask doc about oncovite as was unable to get in Canada without buying on-line. Still feel good and symptoms are minimal except for frequency at night.Doc never said anything about the 250 mg of selenium and i also take 1 tablet in am.Guess I should check it out .
Good luck to you
Keith - keeta

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Thu, 08 Jun 2006 09:43:48 +0100

Keith

I trust things are going ok with you. Would be interested in an update. My story is on the story board under (you guessed it) My Story. I noticed you said you were taking 250mcg of selenium. I was of the understanding that anything over 100mcg may be toxic and not good for you. I am taking 26mcg per day via one tablet in the morning.

Regards

Jeff - Jeff

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Mon, 22 May 2006 14:19:15 +0100

Jeff: My Uro says try whatever I think will help.Hes not big on megs doses of anything but said if I feel good about it go for it within reason and tell him about it prior to starting.Have not used oncovite as not available in Canada.Taking 1000mg vit c ,multivit high in vit A cerotene 6000 units ,and 250 mcg selenium as well as 4 oncolyn tablets per day
Hope all goes well with you
Looks like my bladder will have to be removed as Bcg didnt work and high grade tumor grew while taking treatments.Waiting for ct scan and uro/surgeon reports.
Keith - keeta

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Mon, 22 May 2006 09:22:00 +0100

[b][size=14]I'm curious Keith. What did your doctor say about Oncovite. I am currently considering this.

Jeff �:-?[/size][/b] - Jeff

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Thu, 04 May 2006 23:29:17 +0100

Todd: Never mind I found the ingredient sheet and will talk to uro about it .Thanks again
Keith - keeta

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Thu, 04 May 2006 23:17:32 +0100

Thanks Todd.Did he give you what ingredients are in it ?
Keith - keeta